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flightmac
Since 14 Nov 2017
69 Posts
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 Mon Aug 31, 20 4:57 am Duotone kite pumping.. Is it just me or is 6 psi weird? |
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This post was prompted by an experience at the ES a few days agp when I landed someones Duotone kite. The moment I grabbed it I was like "ewwww", it was like that feeling you get when you shake a limp hand... You know that feeling.
In my attempt to be a good fellow kiter, I set her kite down and suggested pumping it up a bit more. Her response was pretty gunny in hindsight, she said "Yeah, I get that all the time but it's wrong. These are supposed to be like that"... I had no response to that, and I walked away feeling confused and weird.
I used to under inflate my kites too because the suggested PSI was low (Slingshots). One day I watched a Sam Light video and he mentioned that he inflated his SS kites to about 10 PSI, which is about 2-3 psi more than SS suggest, I believe. The difference was a much better kite flying experience.
Does anyone else notice this with Duotone kites? Are they built and designed to be flown like a creepy limp handshake?
Thats why I LOVE Naish. They straight up say pump these babies to 11 PSI AND SEND IT
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consumer
Since 28 Nov 2010
406 Posts
banned
Obsessed
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 5:28 am |
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| 6 psi works well on bigger kites with larger leading edges (12-10m), but on the smaller sizes (<8m) I do pump to higher pressures. If I can buckle the kite easily while holding it in the launching position it needs more air.
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craz z
Since 01 Dec 2008
130 Posts
Montana
Stoked
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 7:32 am |
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| Quote: | | Does anyone else notice this with Duotone kites? Are they built and designed to be flown like a creepy limp handshake? |
I have a mono and other brands. Here are some of my observations.
6 psi does sound a bit on the low side and is what is printed on the kite, but by no means should it be a limp handshake. I always go up at least to 7.5 even 8. Anywhere between 6-8 is pretty hard maybe some light bending but not at all limp.
I think environmental factors are at play. Pump up in the heat on the grass or wherever you hit your number which how accurate are the gauges? blazin sun increasing or maintaining that number. The second it gets in the wind or if it touches the water its gonna go down several psi. Like a tire in the winter or raft in the water vs land.
2nd would be is the airport valve really closed and is the secondary valve cap actually seated all the way down. Duotone valve cap needs to be screwed all the way down as there is slight resistance on the threads midway. I've heard on mine a very faint swisssh when unrigging. suggesting the airport valve isn't fully closed or all the way air tight.
Either way I never experience a limp handshake on the kites but also pay attention to the valves and use the number on the kite as a suggestion.
I rarely drop my kites in the water, but occasionally when it happens you will immediately notice it limp out some even on my Naish pivots at much higher psi's.
I also agree the smaller the kite the higher the number regardless of whats on the kite.
Or this person could have a slow leak and not even know it. most likely from the valve cap not tightened all the way down.
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Marcus O
Since 30 May 2018
98 Posts
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 8:14 am |
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| I pump my Pivots until I’m physically incapable of pumping anymore air into them. I’ve always felt confident doing that since they’re rated at such a high psi. Then my wife bought an Evo and it’s rated at 7 which totally weirds me out. I’ve taken it out a couple of times and still pumped it well beyond the rated psi. I just don’t understand why a modern kite would be rated so low?
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eric
Since 13 Jan 2006
1839 Posts
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 8:29 am |
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I doubt the gauges on the pumps are very accurate, never mind one gauge compared to another. I pump my kites up until the LE is rock hard--"ping!" I have been told that one will break their pump before you blow the LE on modern kites. In any event, rock hard typically is 10-12 psi on whatever pump I happen to be using.
Eric
As an aside, when I have had to self-rescue and taco the kite, I always let a considerable amount of pressure out to make the folding easier.
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floydo
Since 07 Jun 2014
12 Posts
Gorge and Points South
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 10:15 am |
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Been riding North then Duotone for a long time. Pump till you tire of it...agree smaller kites tend to like being harder....mine are always in the red zone...
The limp kite was not even 6 psi...
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shred_da_gorge
Since 12 Nov 2008
1309 Posts
Da Hood & Da Wood
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 10:41 am |
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| craz z wrote: | | 2nd would be is the airport valve really closed and is the secondary valve cap actually seated all the way down. Duotone valve cap needs to be screwed all the way down as there is slight resistance on the threads midway. I've heard on mine a very faint swisssh when unrigging. suggesting the airport valve isn't fully closed or all the way air tight. |
This is good to keep an eye on. I recently launched with a hard kite and returned with a limp squid, then discovered I hadn't capped it - the one-way did a pretty good job but can't be fully relied on especially with crashes. (That was my error of course, but it prompted me to look closer at the valves).
Mentioned this elsewhere: on the older Naish Pivots there's a plastic assembly with a rubber O-ring on the inside screw and rubber flap inside the top cap. These wear with use and leak, but Airtime has $10 replacements you can just swap the new rubber parts with. (Maybe the same as what's called a "Boston valve" I've seen online for inflatable mattresses, but the prices are all about equivalent).
I'm sure any kite brand/model with rubber seals is susceptible to this wear. An occasional soapy spray test may pre-empt it catching you by surprise.
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wylieflyote
Since 30 Jun 2006
1648 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 10:55 am |
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| Marcus O wrote: | | I pump my Pivots until I’m physically incapable of pumping anymore air into them. I’ve always felt confident doing that since they’re rated at such a high psi. Then my wife bought an Evo and it’s rated at 7 which totally weirds me out. I’ve taken it out a couple of times and still pumped it well beyond the rated psi. I just don’t understand why a modern kite would be rated so low? |
Ditto, But I'm on Clouds and max psi is reached at about 10 strokes. I take mine to a point where I basically cannot push any harder. But I'm trying to understand the downside of over-inflation? I've observed only one kite explosion from heat in 12 years. This was at La Ventana on a hot day where a person set his kite on the hot beach and left for tacos.
Kip
_________________
CGKA Member
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Kip Wylie |
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shred_da_gorge
Since 12 Nov 2008
1309 Posts
Da Hood & Da Wood
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 11:04 am |
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| I hope they were damned good tacos!
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kitebot
Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts
Obsessed
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 11:50 am |
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| A kite that limp just sounds wrong. It seems to me like the rider has misunderstood the level of inflation required for the kite to fly properly. I think we all know here that a kite should never feel limp. It probably flies like garbage.
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BeatrixKiddo
Since 21 Feb 2012
18 Posts
Washington Side
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 12:00 pm |
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| flightmac wrote: | | In my attempt to be a good fellow kiter, I set her kite down and suggested pumping it up a bit more. Her response was pretty gunny in hindsight, she said "Yeah, I get that all the time but it's wrong. These are supposed to be like that"... I had no response to that, and I walked away feeling confused and weird. |
Ping tight. Kite pump PSI gauges are an inaccurate joke. Even though everybody tells her a stiff ride is ideal she still prefers limp taco rides. Sad, she's missing out on the full experience.
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4244 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 2:05 pm |
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| I replace the cheapo gauges in my pumps with quality liquid filled gauges that read accurately for years. 10 psi accurately measured is what pump to, 11 or 12 for 6m and smaller kites.
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flightmac
Since 14 Nov 2017
69 Posts
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 3:55 pm |
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| Marcus O wrote: | | I pump my Pivots until I’m physically incapable of pumping anymore air into them. I’ve always felt confident doing that since they’re rated at such a high psi. Then my wife bought an Evo and it’s rated at 7 which totally weirds me out. I’ve taken it out a couple of times and still pumped it well beyond the rated psi. I just don’t understand why a modern kite would be rated so low? |
Yes! This is my thoughts exactly. Made zero sense that kites are still suggesting this when other brands promote pumping to 11+ PSI
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Justsmile
Since 20 Jul 2009
1527 Posts
Not Portland
XTreme Poster
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 4:15 pm |
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You would be shocked how many kites I have launched that are limp. You say may want a little more air and get the WTF look like it’s fine who needs A ping ping kite !!
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Take a breath; inhale |
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Marcus O
Since 30 May 2018
98 Posts
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 5:57 pm |
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| wylieflyote wrote: | But I'm trying to understand the downside of over-inflation? I've observed only one kite explosion from heat in 12 years. This was at La Ventana on a hot day where a person set his kite on the hot beach and left for tacos.
Kip |
I don't think there really is a downside. I'd think the pump would stop working before the leading edge burst. Under-inflating is more likely to lead to a blowout because it causes the leading edge to flex which weakens the stitching.
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McLovin
Since 11 Sep 2017
286 Posts
Corbett
Obsessed
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| Mon Aug 31, 20 10:11 pm 6psi ain't NO LIE |
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My aging North - formerly Duotone kites all have a large 6psi imprint on the leading edge - so she's totally right, always do what you are told.
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HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA - jk - at 6 psi I would be dead 100 times over - pump till your arms bleed and then pump a few more - my shotty WMFG gauges always read at least 9+
funny how those soft kites always come in with a SAD FACE - 
GET STOKED and GET HARD (kite that is) and PUMP IT UP...
https://youtu.be/7Mk1nykjnYA
Mc
_________________
42, the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything  |
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Sasquatch
Since 09 Mar 2005
2093 Posts
PNW
Bigfoot
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| Tue Sep 01, 20 7:02 am |
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Guys and Gals's: an oG on this forum said it best,
"It ain't right till it's BayWatch tight."--Wind Slither.
http://nwkite.com/forums/t-46293.html&highlight=tight
Other things to consider is how often do you plan on the kite crashing on the water and how cold is the water? Are you a newbie or are you practicing something that is going to cause you to drop/crash your kite? In which case you might want a lower psi. Cold water will affect psi too.
I'm not Spinal Tap go to 11, but more like 9.5 psi.
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